Leticia: Yeah, positively so. And I believe you really create a terrific segue to our subsequent play, Within the Blood by Suzan-Lori Parks, that I am positive in case you are a fan, critic, or scholar of Black theatre that you recognize who Suzan-Lori Parks is.
Jordan: I do not know. Suzan-Lori Parks, she’s actually this indie playwright. I am unsure if lots of people have heard of her or actually explored her work earlier than. No, I am simply kidding. She’s clearly a legend of Black theatre. First Black girl to win a Pulitzer Prize for Drama. However this specific… I am not even positive that we have really actually went into depth of one among her performs earlier than on the podcast.
Leticia: No, it is really our first time. Wow. That have to be a file.
Jordan: I do know. Yeah, I imply, we have achieved all of the others—August Wilson, Lorraine Hansberry. It was time. However we have now In The Blood by Suzan Lori Parks. Premiered on the Public Theater, New York Shakespeare Competition in November of 1999. That is actually the nineties when Suzan Lori Parks, I really feel like a whole lot of her performs have been dealing loads with, with questions round Black womanhood. As a result of Venus was what, 1996? So a few years previous to this the place she—I am not saying that there is like a linear thread between Venus and Within the Blood—however I believe that there have been questions that she had round bodily autonomy that was occurring in her thoughts that might create the situations for making one thing like Within the Blood. However Within the Blood can also be a dialog, an adaptation, a sampling, a riffing, a signifying of The Scarlet Letter.
Clearly we’re not going to rehash all the plot of this story, however primarily all it’s essential to know is that The Scarlet Letter is a couple of younger girl named Hester Prynne who, after having an affair with I consider the Reverend of her small city, is compelled to put on a scarlet “A” on her physique to continually disgrace her for the adultery that occurred. And likewise she turns into pregnant from that additionally. So, like, one other means of publicly shaming her for what they deem her to be an impure girl, et cetera, et cetera. Simply basic patriarchy is what it’s essential to get from this brief story. As a substitute of in, I do not know, what’s it, eighteenth century early America, as a substitute we have now Within the Blood happening within the right here and now. And clearly the characters are, nicely, the character of Hester is a Black girl, and she or he has 5 kids. And all of them, I consider all of them have completely different fathers.
So Leticia, inform us a little bit bit about Within the Blood and I assume what you’re seeing as its contribution to our subjects for at present.
Leticia: Yeah. I believe very first thing I need to be aware, I believe that it is actually necessary that Suzan-Lori Parks locations the play within the right here and now. So it locations in a present modern dialog. So after I was rereading the play, I used to be like, man, how would this play hit now that Roe V. Wade has been overturned? What was a number of the bigger conversations? Much like Mary Burrill’s play, we’re with a household that’s dwelling in poverty. For Hester and her kids, it is a lot worse. They do not even have a bodily house. They stay below a bridge. Hester is uneducated. So all through the play, we see Jabber, who’s her oldest, making an attempt to show her to spell. So she’s studying her letters is how Suzan-Lori Parks frames it. However she hasn’t gotten previous the letter A. Once more, hearkening again to The Scarlet Letter.
And all through the play, there is a prologue and an epilogue, and it makes use of this frequent chorus that I’ll share with you all, not in its entirety, however I believe it is actually necessary to arrange the framing of how we’re understanding Hester and on this dialog of reproductive freedom that I believe is absolutely central to understanding Within the Blood. And it goes, “There she is. Who does she assume she is? The nerve that some folks have. Should not have it if you cannot afford it. And you recognize she will’t. She do not acquired no ability, ‘cept one. Simply plain silly, in case you ask me. Ain’t no sensible girl acquired 5 bastards and never a penny to her identify. One thing’s acquired to be achieved to cease this form of factor, as a result of I will be damned if she going to stay off me.”
And once more, that is an abbreviated model of a for much longer prologue and epilogue, however I believe it frames this dialog of, one, that this refrain of individuals—it simply says all within the script—this refrain of individuals, one, is framing Hester as having all these kids as an issue, framing her as somebody who resides off of the social techniques that exist, AKA Welfare, which is a personality within the play, and that their tax paying cash goes to supporting her want to have intercourse with a number of folks. After which three, that one thing have to be achieved about this unfastened girl Hester. And that is the place we get into I believe longer legacies of sterilization of Black ladies from having kids, of hysterectomies, compelled hysterectomies. And I believe what Suzan-Lori Parks does brilliantly on this dialog is that she implicates each different character, not the kids, however each different character.
So we have now the physician who’s like, I am recommending to your caseworker that you just get a hysterectomy. We’ve got the Reverend who’s the daddy of her youngest youngster who’s rising in his pastoral profession about to construct him a church, however he would not need to assist his youngster with youngster assist regardless that he is preaching this gospel of like we have to assist these which can be in want. On the similar time, he is form of like—
Jordan: The deadbeat dad.
Leticia: Yeah, he is a deadbeat dad, after which additionally asking for sexual favors from Hester nonetheless. Then we have now the Welfare who chastises Hester for dwelling on the streets, saying that they are offering providers to her however she’s not really making the most of them, or “You possibly can go to this shelter,” and she or he’s like, nicely I’m going to the shelter and my children get touched. There is a stage, it is both, do my kids get sexually assaulted on the shelter or can we stay below the bridge the place I do know that is not going to be a difficulty? Additionally, the welfare woman who’s a Black woman finally ends up having a threesome with Hester and her husband. Additionally, the physician additionally prior had intercourse with Hester. So all of those characters have had intercourse with Hester.
After which we lastly have Chili, which is Jabber’s father, who’s the oldest youngster of Hester, who comes again. His complete story is he is coming again to search out his old flame and his youngster, and truly actually do proper by Hester. However after discovering that she has had 4 different kids decides that, wait a minute, I did not join this. I am backing out. Once more, we see this conversations of being like, oh, the Welfare has my identify to allow them to garnish my wages? Oh, they ain’t going to search out me. I modified my identify. This form of like distancing from any accountability. And this drives Hester mad to a sure extent the place she finally ends up killing Jabber her oldest, will get imprisoned, after which on the finish of the play is compelled to have a hysterectomy.
Jordan: I consider she’s additionally, I am unsure if it is specified, however she’s incarcerated throughout that point proper? And so I believe that additionally speaks to that bigger legacy of compelled sterilization particularly for girls of shade who’re incarcerated, particularly Black and Indigenous ladies. In order that wrestles with that basically, actually powerful historical past as nicely. I additionally need to be aware that too, she has a good friend Amiga Gringa, which I consider, I do not know Spanish, however I am fairly positive that simply means “white good friend.”
Leticia: This character is white. She mentions it as a result of her complete factor with Hester is that she desires her to make a intercourse tape along with her in order that they’ll make some huge cash. Yeah.
Jordan: Proper. Precisely. The literal identify. Amiga Gringa.
Leticia: One factor that Suzan-Lori Parks would do is provide you with a really literal which means of one thing to be like, I simply need to let you recognize that I am being very clear about who that is.
Jordan: Like after I was studying that, I used to be like, not Amiga Gringa, that is hilarious. However what I believe additionally, one thing that’s so, so fascinating is the ways in which, such as you mentioned, Suzan Lori Parks implicates everyone within the narrative. Each single particular person has failed Hester all through this whole play in many alternative methods. Individuals who ought to have been serving to her, like Welfare. Welfare must be serving to her. It is a social security web put in place, however as a substitute screws her. Like actually, but additionally figuratively. And with the Reverend, she’s speculated to be, Suzan-Lori Parks is indicting non secular indoctrination right here, the place it is like, you are speculated to be a Christian. You are speculated to be giving and beneficiant. And such as you mentioned, he’s on the skin projecting this picture and possibly even does some charity work by way of his ministry.
However like personally and privately, he’s completely making the most of this girl who’s in a really, extraordinarily precarious place. Oftentimes, the characters are additionally referring to love how titillated they’re by Hester. That’s such a repeated concept round this girl all the time. It is identical to I do know I should not, as a result of she’s disgusting, however I simply can’t assist myself as a result of I am simply so… And it is identical to this concept that she is accessible to everyone. And I believe Suzan-Lori Parks can also be once more pointing to a bigger historical past of how Black ladies are learn as at all times sexually accessible to folks, it doesn’t matter what.
And I do assume it is fascinating that Welfare can also be represented as a Black girl. What did you make of that? Clearly, we have learn this play so many instances, however that at all times stops me in my tracks after I do not forget that Welfare is meant to be a Black girl.
Leticia: Yeah. I am talking in draft, however I believe that it implicates Black ladies who work for social techniques. And significantly, I believe it creates a category dialog, as a result of welfare has this, as my grandma would say, good authorities job. That it has a pension, your healthcare, permits her to stay considerably a cushty way of life. And in her monologue the place she’s speaking about her relationship with Hester, she retains mentioning, however I am a spouse, however I am a spouse. And I believe that is how she sees the distinction between Hester and her. And that class place of being like, nicely that may be a specific Black girl that’s dangerous to the notion of Black ladies. Although, such as you mentioned, she’s additionally somebody who’s very titillated by Hester. And her sexual and encounter along with her is one thing that she fondly remembers. And was like, nicely, it solely occurred as soon as, however she completely loved it alongside her husband.
So I believe it is meant to create a category dialog about reproductive freedom, about Black ladies’s positions on a category line on this situation probably. And take into consideration how possibly center class ladies frown upon or look down upon Black ladies who’re poor. And I consider like Cathy Cohen’s politics of deviance. And I believe Hester very a lot might be learn by way of that prism of… I’m utilizing my physique, my bodily physique to have intercourse with these folks, one, as a result of I even have some form of affection in the direction of a few of these folks, AKA Chili, her old flame, that form of like perpetuated this cycle as a result of he disappeared on her.
However then it turns into this financial instrument for her, or so she thinks, that may create a greater life for herself and her kids. So I need to ensure that we’re not framing Hester as somebody who’s deviant for deviance’s sake, however really utilizing it as a political system to have some mobility inside her life. And likewise to say that does not imply that we must always look down at Hester for having any sexual urge for food in any respect. And I believe that Suzan-Lori Parks could be very clear that we’re not going to disgrace Hester for desirous to have intercourse.
Jordan: Proper. And that is one other factor. Oftentimes, when folks discuss low-income or poor folks, there’s a lack of… there’s understandings inside like center class, higher class, and wealthy people who poor individuals are not allowed to get pleasure from something. And that may be intercourse, however that will also be different materials objects. The horrible conversations you see on Twitter of like, oh, “why is that this poor particular person shopping for tennis footwear? Or why is that this poor particular person utilizing their EBT card to get a steak?” No matter it could be, there’s this concept that poor individuals are not allowed to expertise pleasure. And so, Suzan-Lori Parks creates not identical to a blanket political commentary round welfare techniques and the shortage of social security nets, but additionally round a Black girl who, yeah, she’s a mom and sure, she is impoverished.
And sure, she is extraordinarily down on life due to the circumstances which have been created. But in addition she likes to have intercourse and she or he does have intercourse, and she’s going to. And she will expertise concurrently this pleasure and this want whereas additionally understanding that her positionality is stopping her from accessing primary life wants. Prefer it’s not a binary dialog. She’s this, so she would not get to do that; and she or he’s that, so she would not get to try this. However relatively it is each. And I additionally needed to level out too, in these repeated chorus that you just learn originally too, after they say should not have had any if you cannot afford them. So this can be a repeated factor that occurs additionally after we discuss reproductive justice is like, nicely, if you cannot afford to have a child, then you definately should not be having infants.
And whereas I perceive that the monetary raise of getting kids is a actuality, and that’s usually a cause why folks could select to finish their pregnancies or could select to not be mother and father or what have you ever, but it surely does slide into like eugenics a little bit bit when it is like, “In the event you’re poor, then you definately should not be capable to have children.” And that may be a very, like I mentioned, eugenics level that’s introduced up and is a part of the explanation why too somebody like Margaret Sanger is a determine that has a really complicated historical past in terms of Black communities due to her views on eugenics and who ought to and should not be capable to have children. That is like when her views acquired to means excessive factors.
However I say all that to say is that Suzan-Lori Parks creates this actually nuanced image round—it is horrifying, like so many issues that occur on this play are horrifying—but it surely’s additionally extraordinarily nuanced image across the seek for bodily autonomy from Hester all through the play. And in the end, we see her succumbing to the system due to what it has created for her. However what we do get is like, I do not know, created this like sympathetic journey that we get on is like at each flip, this girl has failed by actually everybody round her and apart from her children.
Leticia: Completely, completely. Completely failed by everybody round her apart from her children, who’re additionally struggling all through the play. I believe if I do know something from my very own lived expertise it’s that social techniques for poor and dealing class individuals are inadequate in really caring for them. I believe Suzan-Lori Parks actually captures all these items in place for Hester to be taken care of is definitely simply one other dangerous option to remind her that she is lower than within the eyes of the state and to the many individuals round her.
When that occurs, it leads us to consider Kia Corthron’s Come Down Burning. So if these social techniques are in place and so they proceed to fail us, what occurs when a neighborhood or a household takes reproductive well being and freedom in their very own arms and, one, each of the liberatory potentialities of it, but additionally the potential hurt that may come from an in-home abortion due to the shortage of assets and entry.
Earlier than we soar into this play, Come Down Burning by Kia Corthron, I simply need to say the primary time I learn this play, Jordan, you have been there. It was in a category with our advisor, Dr. Faedra Chatard Carpenter and we have been in Modern Black Drama class. And also you, me, and Faedra all began crying as a result of whereas this play is like deeply unhappy, however simply additionally deeply stunning and transferring the best way that these ladies take care of one another and the best way the play ends. And it has one among my favourite traces of all time of like “You carried me, you carried me good. It was clean trip. Did not really feel one bump.” However once more, you all do not know what which means if you have not learn the play. So Jordan, are you able to give us a quick perception into Come Down Burning?
Jordan: Sure. Kia Corthron additionally, we expect she is a vastly understudied and underproduced playwright. So one, any creative administrators, literary managers, educators, anybody who’s listening to this: please produce every thing Kia Corthron’s ever written. Thanks. Secondly, this play, what was introduced initially in January of 1993 as part of a workshop manufacturing at Lengthy Wharf Theatre in New Haven, Connecticut. So the play is ready in Appalachia. So Skoolie and Tee are sisters. Skoolie is bodily disabled, however she doesn’t have a wheelchair. She as a substitute has a makeshift cart that she makes use of to have the ability to roll herself round. Skoolie additionally lives on a mountain. So as a result of she doesn’t have use of her legs, she can not comfortably rise up and down the mountain. So she is just about confined to this geographic area. Her sister Tee is a mom of, what number of kids does Tee have? Two children proper? Two children I consider.
Leticia: Three children which can be dwelling, two children that had handed.
Jordan: So Tee is a mom to a number of kids. She’s additionally at present pregnant once more and isn’t essentially involved with any of the kids’s fathers. Skoolie along with being the sort of assist to Tee’s kids, Skoolie can also be the neighborhood’s abortion supplier. So she supplies in-home abortions to people locally who want them as a result of they, once more, as a result of they stay in a mountain, there’s not a Deliberate Parenthood on the mountain. So they do not have that sort of entry to that care that they want. Bink, who is among the characters of the play is Skoolie’s I consider childhood good friend, additionally requests an abortion from her, et cetera, cetera. So one other main character within the play is Tee’s daughter, Evie. Evie is struggling at college as a result of her instructor’s racist. Her instructor is racist and is treating Evie badly.
Evie tells Skoolie and Tee about it. And Tee goes down there with the intention of with the ability to deal with the scenario, however is unable to essentially management it. And Evie continues to be receiving this type of abuse from her instructor. Skoolie is like, nicely, possibly if I’m going down there and I will discuss to her, and that is the place that lovely line that Leticia shared on the prime of this section is available in is the place Tee really volunteers to hold Skoolie down the mountain to the college in order that Skoolie can discuss to Evie’s instructor. And extra issues transpire throughout the play. However ultimately Tee, as a result of she figures that she’s unable to care for an additional youngster, really elects to offer herself an house abortion, as a result of she would not need to must depend upon Skoolie for every thing anymore as she has been all the time.
And so she’s like, look, I can do that one factor. I can do it. Due to her, I assume, inexperience with with the ability to present this service, she really succumbs to her accidents, or what occurs on this botched abortion. On the finish of the play, we get that lovely second between Skoolie and Tee, the place Skoolie remarks that Tee carrying her down the mountain was the smoothest trip. There was no bumps.
And actually, we identical to, sure, we need to discuss reproductive, how this play talks about reproductive healthcare, however simply the love between these ladies on this play is such a driving level for why this play works so nicely since you do not simply get the… I’ve watched so many movies of Kia Corthron speaking about how a lot analysis she places into her performs. She considers herself to be a political playwright. And in case you learn her different works, you’ll positively see that. And she or he does all this analysis and all of those details, however what theatre does so nicely is that it pulls at your coronary heart, and also you get all of these items about healthcare and reproductive justice and freedom. However you additionally simply get this stunning play about household and sisterhood and motherhood. It is simply stunning.
Leticia: Yeah, completely stunning. And I believe we have now one, what we do not get maybe in Within the Blood and in Mary Burrill’s play, is the connection between incapacity rights and reproductive rights as like interconnected. Skoolie, who doesn’t have use of her legs as a result of she had an accident when she was a younger youngster the place she fell out of a tree with Bink. Bink was fantastic, however she grew to become paralyzed after which she needed to study to navigate. They’re additionally poor, working class. So this isn’t a household that essentially has like some huge cash to afford a wheelchair. And I believe even Skoolie refrains at one level, like, I do not need a wheelchair. I am good with my cart. The set is described, just like the fridge, the range, which is definitely actually only a scorching plate. It is all on the ground stage.
